Jan Jedlinski: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the stage four hour last but not least session hosted by Jeff with Dave and Tim who will talk about building a global staffing organization and using the current synergies to make a big staffing business globally. I will hand over to Jeff and enjoy the session and then join us after the session for the World Staffing Awards ceremony, where we will show the top 15 staffing owners and operators to watch for the next year. Enjoy and see you later.
Tim Ozier: Thank you.
Jeff Nugent: Thanks very much, Jan. Excited to be here guys, and being the final session of the day. We're going to have to bring the energy. And in a traditional conference I would always announce we're between the audience and the cocktails reception.
So if you are feeling like a cocktail, please jump on the bandwagon for cocktail while you listened to us. We won't want to hold you up. All right. So the formal session of the day It's amazing to be part of the World's Staffing Summit. It's been an amazing day of content from diversity to technology to remote work.
The content has been second to none and been amazing to be part of it. Want to thank the Gustav team and the World Staffing Summit for putting this on and bringing us all together. I know with the current circumstances, it's a nice to see a lot of friendly faces over the day that we have seen at different venues over the years and conferences.
So, without further ado wanted to bring on. The last second here, which is entitled, it's never been easier to take your staffing business global. And you know, what has really come about in the recent years this past year, the idea of border and location is having less and less relevance. And so. I'm happy to present on this topic. And I've got some great presenters that are on our panel here today. We've done Dave Nerz from NPAworldwide global networks networks. And we've got Tim Oier from. I always get that wrong, Dave, because I come from Canada and I give the, the Quebec accent on that, but it could be Ozeir or Ozier your but, uh, I know you're going to correct me is the Senior Director at the MRI networks.
So with everything
Tim Ozier: Just calling early,
Jeff Nugent: I wanted to have you guys introduce yourselves and talk a little bit about your organizations because they're very unique. In the aspect of bringing firms together to help each other expand their businesses and what you both experienced and why you're here today, expand their businesses globally.
So Dave, take it away.
Dave Nerz: Thanks a lot, Tim or Jeff. I really appreciate. And Hey, before I introduced myself, I want to thank Jan and the people at Gustav. I mean, it really is wonderful to see other people. I know we're all kind of trapped in our houses and doing our deal. But it is great to see other people.
My name is Dave Nerz. I am president of NPA worldwide. NPA. Worldwide is a recruitment network. It's a membership organization. Our members are the owners of the network that we run here. And we've been around for 65 years and our purpose is to help facilitate split placements between our members with that.
You're muted Tim. Sorry.
Tim Ozier: That's a tough way to start off for sure. Is that better? Yes. And it is Tim Osier, but again, call me whatever, just as long as you call me early in the opportunity. So yeah, I work for MRI network. We are a global organization of franchise owners. We have about 400 network members in the us and across the globe.
Also been around for a while. Dave we were founded in 1965. I don't know where that puts us now, somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 years or so. Right. So, uh, and yeah, we, like I said, we're, we are global and we are always looking for opportunities to expand our business, both domestically and with our clients and new clients overseas as well, too.
Dave Nerz: So Jeff you're muted now, but just to build, on the, you wanted us to give a little background on our organization. So as Tim pointed out, they're a large organization and we happened to be large in a different kind of way, because we're about 570 members on a global basis. A little bit more, a little bit less than two 3rds of those in north America and the rest spread around the world.
But each, each member is an independent owner of a recruitment business. Some of them do pure contingent search, some do retain some do staffings. It's a mixed bag in terms of what each member does. And it kind of depends on their locations in some cases and their specialties. So we work a wide range of specialties.
Anywhere from accounting finance across the IT, Engineering, Manufacturing Chemical Process, Legal, Agribusiness, a bunch of different things. So, what's nice is from a global standpoint, they have a peer network that they can work with if they need. To play somebody in Europe. They have people they can work with.
If there's somebody in Europe, the ones that play somebody in Asia, they have a connection that they can make. And that's one of the things that makes the global nature of business a little bit easier nowadays. But with that, I'll turn it over to you and you maybe want to expand on MRI.
Tim Ozier: Yeah, thanks.
Thanks Dave. So, MRI is really known more for its permanent placement. Executive search is really where, where we've kind of built our reputation that's in our DNA. That's how we were founded way back in the day by our founder, Alan Schellenberg who many people don't know, he was one of the first people to do company paid fees.
Remember back in the day the candidate used to have to pay the fee for perm placement and Allan Schoenberg was one of the leaders of the company paid fee. So I know we're all happy about that. About that transition. But as I said, we do mainly perm place. That's where we're mainly known for. I run our contract staffing division.
So we have a very robust contract staffing division and the way that it works, it's kind of interesting. So as I mentioned, we have about 400 different network members, franchises across the globe. Any contractors that are placed on assignment through our network members actually come through me that come through MRI contract staffing.
We're kind of the single point of contact. We signed the contracts. The well, along with our back office partner, the employer of record responsibility. So we try to make it as simple and as painless as possible for our network members to offer contract staffing services to their clients. Because as you guys both know, you know, contracting is a very different beast.
As far as the legal, the employee, you know, the employment law the tax implications, all that stuff that goes hand in hand with contract staffing as well.
Jeff Nugent: For sure. Well, and, and on this session, we want to have kind of an open discussion. And as, as questions come in from the audience, we'll also bring, bring them in to set the kind of the groundwork we wanted to say.
Talk about the why, why are you starting to see the opportunities continue to expand in such an exponential. Fashion that makes it make sense for organizations to take their business global. Talk about some of the pitfalls and some of the obstacles that, you know, you can encounter. Well, well dealing with taking a staffing business mobile and then of course, where there's obstacles, there's always solutions, right.
And want to talk about actually some of the ease of doing business globally now. There's solutions out there and various ways to, to deal with the various potential obstacles that, that are out there. And then if there's any case studies of, of members that you have within your organizations that have, have, you know, said, okay, let's, let's attack this global business and, and go after it. It'd be great to hear from you guys, some success stories as well. So, you know, Thinking about going global, you know, there, when the audience is, is really a global audience, which has been fantastic, but the SIA stats are it's about a $3.6 trillion market. Now that's out there in the contingent workforce and the contract staffing business and the gig economy altogether, the US makes up about 30% of it which is significant, but when you only think it's 30%, wow. There's a big market out there. And SIA stats, there is about 14 major markets out there that make up about 87% of the total market including Japan, UK, France, Germany the Netherlands, Canada and Australia, some fairly sizable markets that have a lot of spend and usage of staffing and recruiter services.
So there is a big market out there outside of your borders. So whoever's listning. Wherever you are. Looking outside of your borders has never been easier and there's lots of opportunities to increase your business. The, the, the venue we're talking today on a remote basis around the world is, is a Testament to that.
And so Dave and Tim you can trade off on this, but what are some of the opportunities and why are, why are your members really starting to think global? Is it a client driven basis? Is it demographics? Is it the talent? What are some of the trends in the opportunities? Yeah. Y
Tim Ozier: if you want, I'll, I'll kind of that, that was a lot to unravel there.
Jeff. So piece by piece. First of all, the title of our, of our, of our session, it's never been easier. So I've been doing this for eight years internationally domestic contract staffing for a lot longer than that. About 25. I don't know what it was like eight years ago. But it's not easy now. So we should probably, you know, maybe take the time is absolutely right.
The market is huge that it's gotten, it's even more important for us to focus on international business, for sure. To keep our clients and our candidates happy. But you know, to say it's easy. Yeah. It's not easy. Per se, um, because especially on the contract staffing side, I think it's a little bit different than the permanent.
But with contract staffing, you've got so many legal international tax situations you know, uh, immigration laws things like that. So there are a lot of moving pieces to the business. But if you align with with a good partner that can help you kind of work your way. The back alleys of all those different areas that you might you know, have to deal with, then you'll be in good shape.
I think one thing about that, I I've said frequently about the business I'm in contract staffing and interim solutions is it's really kind of like two different businesses. There's the talent acquisition. You know, you have to go find your client and find your candidate and make that match. That's what we do as recruiters, you know, and that's where we really add value is by finding high quality people to put, to work for our clients.
But there's that whole other piece, that whole very important piece of pain and billing and collecting and making sure that we're complying with all of the rules and regulations, either in the U S or elsewhere. So it's almost like two different, two different businesses you have to master. You've got to be good at finding the people, first of all, but you have to be darn good at making sure that we're paying them and billing and compliant with all the rules and regulations that we have to in the international marketplace.
Jeff Nugent: So, so why are some of the companies that you work with going global or, or seeing the opportunities to test the waters and take that step into the unknown with some of those pitfalls and obstacles?
Dave Nerz: Well, let me take a shot at that one, Jeff. And I would say if you're looking for like the next hot market to chase, this is not it.
As Tim pointed out, this is difficult work and has been for a long period of time. So I think what drives you there is a climb. Yeah, or a candidate and it it's, it's an opportunity at this point. I would say that there's a lot of people who work in the staffing and recruitment space that don't talk about, international work, global placement with their clients, because at some point your client is going to come across the need. They know need to know that you have that ability. And you're really a problem solver for them at that point because the person HR person that works up wakes up in the UK on Thursday morning, and somebody tells them they need to have temporary contract assigment for some sort of work in Canada within two weeks, that's a problem. And you can solve that for them if you're in that conversation with them early. So I would say what's driving this opportunity would be support of a client. And the other thing that goes along with that, if you're not talking to your clients about your capabilities and putting some sort of global capability together, then they're going to be bringing competitors into your account.
So they're going to need to solve this problem and it's not going to be used solving it. So you are going to have a new competitor from a different location. Who's now within your account. So I'd say it's, it's a lot of cases it's client driven is what's making this happen to him and Jeff.
Tim Ozier: Yeah, I think you're spot on Dave.
I think another thing, I mean, obviously. You know, personally globalization and, you know, in some places that's not the most favorite word. I'm a big fan of globalization. I think the world is getting smaller and we're all, you know, becoming part of the global community for sure. Jeff getting back to one of your first questions, I mean, what has driven a lot of this is looking for cheaper labor solutions, obviously, right?
He used to work in the, in the bay area. And, you know, have a lot of a high-tech clients that were looking for primarily in a lot of cases developers, you know, coders, etc, that they could find at a way, way less expensive in other countries than they could in the US. So that led to kind of, you know, you might've heard like the follow the SUN model where these big global companies really like to have operations and, you know, around the world to take advantage of time zone differences, labor cost, differences, etc, and really, you know, kind of connect.
Their logistical supply chain. So I think the, the differences in the cost of labor is what really drove this. But I love what Dave said. You know, I've always said the best place to get new business is with existing clients. So you already have your inroads made with your existing customers. You you've earned their trust.
You know, you've got great relationships, but they might not well know that we can provide international solutions as well too. So you have to talk that up all the time. I think that's, you know, that's kind of the most common model for us is where we're working with. A company in the US that has international needs and we say, Hey, we can help you there too. And then that develops into a good opportunity.
Jeff Nugent: Yeah. And yet there was a lot of conversation and other sessions around vendor consolidation and optimization. And when that happens in these procurement models that often bubbles up to who can do the most for us, And, and in a lot of cases, if it's an international or multinational client, they will look to the multi-national capabilities of their vendor communities to say, well, if you can help us in 10 different countries versus just one that that will rank you higher in these procurement mechanisms and especially when they're starting to roll out the large MSP programs and the contingent workforce programs around the world now to, to gain visibility into their total spend worldwide and their head count and risk and all those other things that traditional programs that have centralized wanted to do.
They're going to look to you as the vendors, right? To say, can you help us in these multiple locations? So you guys are 100% correct on the client need. And being able to offer that as is fantastic.
Dave Nerz: I I'd say the other reality, that's gonna change things a lot in the short term is, COVID. Um, so what's happened around the world.
I was just communicating with one of our former board directors today and he's in Indonesia. He worked in an office forever and ever. And now he's been at home for a year. We've have, I don't know how many of us are now working from home. Our employers, our managers, our leaders. Didn't believe we were working when we were home at one point that myth is, has been broken.
And I think the permanence of place is less important to employers than it was in years past. That's going to change the way they look at their labor forces. So if you think back, you know, 10 years ago, people were looking outside of their resident markets or lower cost labor, or things like accounting or overnight engineering or ad development work, or all sorts of things were being done in remote markets because of labor costs.
And there were only big companies that had confidence in doing that. But now. Managers and companies have found that they can have remote workforces and still be full functioning, maybe even more productive. In some cases it's going to open up a world of opportunity. No pun intended.
Jeff Nugent: Yeah. It really has accelerated that business, the business models that we're starting to take get some traction the last year has truly accelerated a number of different business models and the way we're starting to think about work as well. I, you know, we, in our industry, in the staffing industry are always thinking about what's the future of work look like, but when the traditional USA today or Forbes magazine or all of the media out there, they're all talking about, what's the future of work going to look like?
Because quite honestly, the way we work changed overnight in March, we all. Started to do this. And, and I often will, will laugh, but I will get up in the morning and I say, I'm gonna go zoom around the world, which would have taken four different flights and three days of travel from here to there to everywhere.
And a lot of logistics. And time consumption, whereas I can wake up in the morning and be in 15 different countries throughout the day. So really the idea of how we're going to work and the talent pools as well. So it's finding clients, how will you find global clients? Well, use your existing client base to maybe bring you international or vice versa.
You know, good prospectors now can hop on a zoom call with someone in the UK. And it's not about taking them to the coffee shop anymore because the coffee shop is closed with most of the lockdowns around the world, but, and they can then say, Hey, give their value prop to someone in a different jurisdiction very quickly.
So you know, it really has opened up your prospecting to a very different. A much larger prospect list than just your local community providing local type talent pools. So, you know, the opportunity is there to expand and different ideas on how to expand some of the, the potential. Obstacles or other things that your, your members or you've seen through experience in, in going global is, you know, there's also the talent side of it.
And I think I've answered some of the questioning around talent pools. But it used to be very much, you would want a local recruiter doing the recruitment locally because. They were in that network. They had had history there and there was lots of referrals on a personalized basis. You know, how has that changed now?
And is, is that making it easier to recruit globally with the different ways we're doing business now with remote work, remote talent easier to access through technology. What are some ideas on finding talent as, as a big part of, because that's our assets that we sell to the clients
Mute, Can't hear you.
Dave Nerz: Okay. Tim's muted. I mean, I, I think that Jeff, I think talent obviously needs to be found locally. I mean, you're moving talent is, is not, I I've not seen any evidence of that being a reality. So in every case, I mean the market where you want people has to be the market where you look for people, you don't, you don't define the location for the job and then find people to move to.
That's not really effective in, in in employment or in recruitment. So I think a lot of cases, you're either going to have to develop that capability to find local talent someplace outside of your local market. Or you're going to have to develop connections with people who can work with you to do that.
And Tim, you might have some different perspective on that. Okay.
Okay. We'll look, we'll look on that one. Yep. So, Jeff, I mean, I would, I would just say that some of the things that have eased this a little bit is. This is a great example of it today. I mean, people have gotten comfortable with video communication technology. I can tell you that, you know, we have a 570 plus member network.
And at one point I suggested that we have more media video meetings and somebody wanted to hit me over the head because it was a crazy idea. It was complicated. It was intimidating. People have gotten really used to it. So video interviewing is a, you know, a much more common thing. So you don't, you don't have to be around the corner from somebody to interview them anymore.
And that, I mean, previously, you know, a lot of recruiters brought people in house to interview them just not in necessity anymore. And that, that really helps a lot. That you know, that that has changed in a very recent times. I would say in the last year it's become very commonplace. I, there's still some things that are quite difficult for people, you know, time is, is a difficult one.
You know, different time zones. I dunno, I turned my phone off at a certain point because I was getting tired of the, you know, early morning calls, but time zones are real and they're a challenge to navigate through. So, you know, there's great tools for working through that too. All right.
Tim Ozier: Any luck?
Can you hear me? Okay. I swear. I'm familiar with the microphone icon. I did not have it viewed it. I don't know what was going on there, but I got a little bit of a different spin on this. I would say. You know, we, we use the term easy. I do agree that it's easier than ever to find talent all over the world.
I mean, we've got recruiters that sit in. I'll give you an example of Shreveport Louisiana. One of my top recruiters works out of street port, and he finds people in Israel and Australia in Belgium, in Germany, you name it. He is fantastic. And you don't have to be there. However, On the contract staffing side, there are many countries where you do have to have a brick and mortar location in that country to legally employ contractors.
So it's definitely kind of that push and pull again. Yeah. We can find them for you from anywhere, but we might not need that. We might need to have a local company to run them through, to be that local contact based upon those local in country laws.
Jeff Nugent: Well, and, and we've actually seen that with a lot of our clients where they had American, they had international talent.
On work visas in the U S and then as the pandemic rolled out and the international workers went through their home countries, they, the clients were still wanting to engage with them, but they were going to engage them in, in Israel, Italy, or Germany, or you name it and You can do that, but you have to know how to employ them in those international locations.
You can't pay them through your us payroll, pay us for emergencies for an international employee. Right. You'll have to employ them in their home country and do the remittances in those countries. So, finding solutions around that is key, right?
Tim Ozier: Hey, Jeff, you just mentioned something really important to hold pain and billing in the same currency, because it doesn't always work out that way.
You have to make do, when you talk to your clients, you're letting them know, Hey, if I'm going to pay and, you know, Australian dollars, we want to bill you in Australian dollars too, to avoid any type of negative impact from exchange, rate fluctuations and stuff like that. So, super important to get those lined up.
Jeff Nugent: Yeah, for sure. And so, I know there's solutions out there, but I'm going to bring it up to you guys to talk about some of the solutions you've seen to some of these unique situations as you go across international boundaries, some of the solutions you've seen out there. To help with certain issues around currency or employment law or payroll taxes.
How have different members in your organizations helped out? Got, are there solutions out there?
Dave Nerz: Well, I mean, personally, I feel that you ought to do what you do well, and hopefully that's recruting. and you gotta be recruiting the right people to fill the roles and you ought to let somebody else, and in Tim's case, it's built into the network, but in other cases you have to look outside and you have to find somebody that what they do is they function as employer record, or, you know, the, they handle the, the payments and the tax processing and all of that.
I, I don't think it's wise to, I don't think it would be wise to consider doing that between something that sounds nipple like the U S and Canada or the U S and Puerto Rico. I mean, I think, I think you want to, you want to find situations where you have a provider and I know people 2.0 has some of those, but you gotta have.
Experience knowledge and people in place learn, stand the laws, understand currencies, understand taxation. You cannot do that and be a recruiter too. If you're doing both of those, then you're you know, a superstar.
Tim Ozier: I think you're spot on Dave. It's really hard to be great at both. For sure. You need, you know, You're you're great.
Excellent recruiter. Who's going out and finding the talent and then you need a company like or others out there, but not as good that provide those international solutions for sure. Because you know that international business it's really hard to wing it. I mean, you might be able to get away with that for a little while and not really be totally honest on the in the know regarding, you know, that taxes and, and in country regulations and stuff like that, but that's going to catch up to you sooner or later.
Especially when you start to work with bigger companies that have a global presence who are very familiar with a lot of the different rules, because they're in those different countries. They want to know that we know what we're doing and we're not going to put either them or our contractors in any type of jeopardy or harm's way regarding how we're paying and billing and taxing, etc.
So I think you're right, Dave, you really need, you need PR experts at that, you know, Stick to what you know, we're experts at sourcing high, get great talent and use a company like us or another company that provide that back office.
Dave Nerz: And Tim, as you pointed out, I mean, even from a standpoint of engaging candidates to fill roles and you have you have to understand the legalities in different marketplaces.
So, you know, if you're going to do that and China or some other places, I mean, you need to know what the rules are and not understanding the rules is not going to be an excuse for when you break one and you have you know, severe penalty because you've done something wrong. So, it's really good to have a partner on the ground, whether it be a employer of record or a trading partner on the standpoint of another recruiter that you're working with who knows the local rules and can help you navigate.
Jeff Nugent: Yeah. And one of the things that actually, and I don't know how you've experienced it, but licensing is incredibly popular. Once you get outside of the U S borders as well, it's you have licensing and some jurisdictions in the us, but outside the borders, espically in Europe. Licensing it when it comes to being a temporary employer of is important and even recruiting licenses.
And so having that local knowledge, just because you can recruit may not mean you can actually legally, so, It's important to also know those, the legislative issues. And it's a constant shifting scenario with, with and we'll continue to see that shift in legislation and taxation, especially as government wake up from. COVID spending situation. They're going to have to look to have to pay for all of it at some point. And a lot of cases that will come through employment tax and taxation. So, you know, the whole idea of the other topic of independent contractors is and the gig economy, the COVID pandemic really accelerated the remote workering model and the online platform space, but the whole increase in the gig economy. It just doesn't mean everybody's independent contractors and I'm not sure how, how much experience each of you have with that, but are you starting to see the shift towards more independent contractors or less? Issues with that.
I know of course in the U S is very popular topic around misclassification of independent contractors. But are you seeing that on an international basis as well? And, and some solutions around that?
Tim Ozier: Yeah. Great, great question, Jeff. One thing you mentioned, I, I definitely wanna go back to is, you know, the, the fact that the, the laws changed so frequently.
So you might think that you're on top of what the regulations are. Even in the US I'll give you a good example. We can go with it with COVID. We place somebody on assignment and they tested positive for COVID right on the first day of assignment. And we were on the hook for paying them during the quarantine period.
So, you know, that's one of those things that, you know, nobody could have foreseen, but you need to be on top of those things all the time. Getting back to the ICS. You mentioned. Yeah. About a third of our contractors are independent contractors, so we're very familiar with it. In fact, I would say almost all of our internationals are what we would call what they would call self-employed.
So, that's even more important with them to make sure that we, that they are properly classified. They're vetted that they really do meet the IC classifications or qualifications depending on the country they're working. So I do think that, that you know, that that model is becoming more and more common.
You know, we talk about the gig economy and in effect, you know, all those gig workers are ICS. And you know, it's, it's amazing the, the the unforeseen circumstances, sometimes I, I guess you probably are familiar with the AB five resolution that passed in California, that Uber spent $20 million on to make sure that they didn't, they weren't gonna happen.
Classify their drivers as employees, they won that battle. Now I'm hearing or reading that there are a bunch of supermarket chains in California that are laying off all of their unionized drivers and hiring ICS to do that instead. So, you know, just an example of the, how quickly things can change on a dime.
Dave Nerz: Tim, I'm just noting, there's a couple of comments that are coming in and maybe. We could talk about some of those that one of them is from Richard. The he, he apparently goes by the staffing shark and he says, he's big on video resumes. I'm just wondering if anybody has any experience with video resumes, which is a great way of kind of accomplishing the cross border challenges.
You know, you're in a different time zone, kind of a thing. Is anybody doing anything, anything like that? I
Tim Ozier: I mean, video resumes are not brand new. They have been around for awhile. We used to have a program called confir view, or it was kind of a closed circuit TV. So you could interview your candidate live via television, but there are pros and cons.
There's some pitfalls. I mean, obviously you do have to worry about any type of, you know, people evaluating somebody on other than their, than their work experience. Right? You can see somebody and you might make a decision based upon that, which is obvious. Right. Uh, but, and then I, I actually, one of my one of our network members is recently introduced a program where he's uh, he'll solicit questions from his client that they will ask.
They want him to ask the candidates, the last set of candidates that live on the camera and then submit that uh, you know, as a, as a sort of a video video resume. And I think one of the things that does help with is making sure that Uh, you know, the person has good good communication skills depending on the job for that they are in.
And it's a little bit off topic, obviously for what we're talking about here.
Jeff Nugent: Sure. And, but there's, there's the time zones, but there's also cultural differences as well. And and it, on the heels of the diversity conversation, we had slightly earlier in the the, uh, the session here just before ours.
The cultural norms and doing business internationally. Are they an obstacle? How has some of your members overcome that language barriers, these types of things? What are you seeing as some best practices to overcome some of those cultural differences? Is it hire staff locally? Is it hire diverse talent on your teams to go after those target markets?
What have you seen with some of your members?
Dave Nerz: I think everybody, you know, this is unique and it kind of depends where the home country is and where the need is. So, you know, we're, the client is paying. And where are the jobs going to be located? So some of them are more complex than others. Some of them it's fairly simple because, you know, English ends up being the primary business language in both countries.
And others it's, it's much more of a struggle and there needs to be more of a handoff that happens between the person who has the client relationship and the person that's going to find the candidate. So I think. Each situation is rather unique and there's like, there is no, this is the way it always works.
It's just, you have to come, go into it with an open mind and find out how are you going to solve the uniqueness of the problem that's put in front of you.
Jeff Nugent: For sure. Tim, have you seen different ways that your members have attacked different markets and going global? Have they hired diverse talent on their teams or as that they've gone after.
Countries that were more in line with their cultural norms, be it Western versus Eastern norms or etc. How has some of that been overcome?
Tim Ozier: Most of the international opportunities that I've worked on have been, are domestic clients looking for, you know, to Dave's point English is the business, the global business language now.
So they're looking for. English speaking resources in other countries that might have a lower cost than they would in the U S. So that really, hasn't been a huge challenge for us from a from a language perspective, because, you know, they have to have that, those communication skills to, to qualify for the job that we're the we're looking for for them.
So that hasn't been a huge issue. I'm trying to read some of the discussions, some of the questions here to see. What about do we, do we recommend acquisition is the easiest way to expand globally. No, I would not say that. I would say that, you know, part with companies that have expertise overseas or is very important, but again, I think.
Like I said earlier, MRIs known primarily for perm placement. Well, you know, our, one of our main jobs is to go out to every one of our clients and say, we do more than just perm we do contract as well, too. So it's sort of the same, what we were talking about earlier. They think we're just domestic or US-based, or only going to find talent for them than us.
But we work with companies that have, you know, locations in 10, 20, 30 different countries around the us. Incumbent on us to make sure that they know that, that we're capable of providing those resources wherever they are. And, you know, that goes back to just relationship building and sales.
Dave Nerz: Yeah. I couldn't think of a more complicated way of expanding globally than position.
I mean, it'd probably be easier to go and start your own company in another location, but I wouldn't do that either. I mean, I, I think if you're gonna start. In less, you have massive resources to apply to this. Then I would say the best way to start is to leverage somebody else's ability in another market as a partner.
As opposed to going in alone, either through acquisition of a business there where you would get a partner obviously, or starting your own business there, those would be complicated ways I would start with with partnering. And then, you know, if you find that it's a fabulous market and you want to buy into it, then good for you.
Acquisition is one way to get there, but there is another question in here that I think Javier had about EOR. And they're wondering, I think Tim, what's, what's your method for handling these, um, these payments and employer situations around the world that you're working on?
Tim Ozier: Yeah, so, we do use an ER or AOR agent of record solution, as I said earlier, most.
I think all, but a handful of our contractors overseas are self-employed. So we would use an agent of record solution there. And we do outsource that to your point, Dave, I mean, you know, don't try to do something that you're not really good at find somebody who is outsource that to them. Like we tell our clients all the time, you know, your core competency is a recruiting.
Ours is well stick to our core competency and we also involve, can help us with this stuff. I'm just thinking of, you know, some of the other. Situations we come across, you know, VAT tax. I mentioned before you know, we had to get a company called BDO in a huge giant global tax company involved or fragment might be a company that many people are familiar with for on the on the immigration side.
So there are a lot of really great companies that don't want to make this just a P2O ad, but they're fantastic because they are physically located in what, 60, 70 different looking at countries around the world. So it does make it a lot easier for us to expand our reach.
Jeff Nugent: Yeah. And you did mention the alternate, is to do the traditional route, right.
And talk to tax advisors, talk to legal advisors, talk to employment lawyers and, and set up your, your entities there. And so there is that. Right as well. And, and there is more and more information out there and the world's getting smaller, but it is, it is a leap of faith a little bit by setting up your own, your own entity in certain jurisdictions.
What we have seen as clients is some. You know, they'll use the employer of record or agent of record service in different jurisdictions until they get to a size that they say, Hmm, it makes sense too, for us to establish our own permanent resident. Or an establishment there and then set up our own shop.
And that often will happen in a Neo war situation to where you do have to think about your permanent establishment rules of that country. And once you get to a certain size, it may make more sense to move into a permanent, setting up shop as well. But depending on the circumstance, there's different options.
You can go before.
Dave Nerz: I see, they're asking us to wrap up soon, Tim or Jeff.
So, you were asking for examples at one point, I don't know how much time we have left, but I mean, I just, I think you have a decision to make you can work wherever you want nowadays, and COVID is a living proof of that. So, decide what market you want to be in. Decide where you have expertise and apply and apply it.
It does not have to be in the place where you wake up every morning. We had a member who decided they didn't want to participate in what was a recessionary period in Australia about maybe eight years ago, something like that. He just decided he would no longer work jobs in Australia. He would work jobs in North America and his business completely shifted to a North American focus over a matter of months.
And he didn't participate in the local recession, but rather participated in what was a more stable economy in another part of the world. So you have a lot of flexibility nowadays. Think about it and apply it.
Jeff Nugent: Pardon me closing remarks.
Tim Ozier: Oh yeah. First of all, thank you, Jeff. Thank you, Dave. It's been great talking to you guys and thank you, Jan again for for hosting this, but you know, I, I would say don't be afraid, you know, don't be afraid to dip your toe in the water because like you said, Jeff. Yeah. The us staffing market is huge and there's probably plenty of business for all of us there, but there's, there's a lot more outside of our borders too.
And I think what Dave said earlier too, you know, if, if we're not providing these solutions to our end clients, we'll find somebody who does. So let's make sure that you're the first one there and making sure that they're fully aware of all of your capabilities. And you know, there are a lot of great companies.
I see. One of the questions here is, you know, how many global players are there in your opinion, myriad who a lot of them, for sure. I mean, some of the biggest staffing companies in the world are headquartered overseas as well. So the US is behind market as far as contract staffing, certainly W2, penetration, but yeah, that, that the opportunities are married and, and partner with a good solid well-versed company.
That's not going to put you or your end client in a bad spot and you can go forward with confidence and look for new business outside of your boarders.
Jeff Nugent: Excellent. Well, thank you, Dave and Tim for a great conversation on, on the opportunities and, and the how to, to expand across your borders into the global markets.
I think once again if 2020 ever taught us anything is you have to be resilient. You have to be creative in continuing your business operations and look for markets. And I thank you for your time and your expertise from your, your experiences over time with your network members. And and I want to also thank Gustav for hosting the World Staffing Summit.
It's been a great day and I want to hand it off, for closing remarks to Jan. And, thank you again.
Dave Nerz: Cheers everyone.