Jan Jedlinski: Hello, everyone. Welcome back. We are starting our first panel. The topic upskilling and reskilling. We have Daniel, Adam, Mary, and Charandeep and now I will hand over to Daniel, to start the session. Enjoy it. Bye bye-bye.

Daniel Masata: Thank you, Jan. Thanks for the quick intro here and welcome everybody to. this first panel discussion on what I think is a very urgent and current topic, upscaling and rescaling for staffing companies, just a fad or just essential.

We'll try to make this a fun session to all of you. you know, we'll start off with a few introductions. Of course, my name is Daniel Masata. I'm the founder of Volante where we built a digital workforce agility platform. And really our mission is to turn workplace and career change into more positive and proactive and empowering experiences.

And in a previous life I spent 15 years with Adecco group, which probably many of you know most recently as head of global strategy and digital transformation. Well, clearly the pressure is on here for this group here. because you know, this is the first panel discussion. you know, we'll, we'll see if technology cooperates with all of us and collaborates here.

I take my hat off to the Gustav team and Jan for them working in this online format. I think all of us know that it's not always easy to again, make technology collaborate that I've I think they've done a tremendous job just leading up to this event. I'm sure this will be a great session overall.

I can see that we have 1,257 participants on this online panel, which of course is great turnout, but I'm not surprised because I have the privilege of being joined by three outstanding professionals, executives, and subject matter experts and friends on this panel here. in just a second, I will ask them to.

Give their 15 second Introduction to each one of them. And then I'll start it off with one little ice breaker question to get everybody going. And then we'll really dive into the session here for today. Again, Upskilling and Reskilling for staffing companies, just a fad or just essential. So I'm sure this will be a great conversation.

A little short of a round of introductions here with everybody. Mary, do you want to kick it off?

Mary Finley: I'm Mary Finley, Executive Vice President of human resources at a staffing consulting firm called Advanced Group headquartered out of Chicago. I lead human resources across our internal employee base, as well as all of the consultants that we have out with our clients.

And prior to the three and a half years, I've spent with Advanced, I spent about 12 years in the training space, training and consulting on the training vendor side where we were providing corporate education into clientele across the globe. So really excited to speak about this topic with you all.

Daniel Masata: Thanks, Mary.

Charandeep Chhabra: Absolutely. Thank you, Daniel. And welcome everybody. I'm really delighted to be here. I work as a President for Global Enterprise business for general assembly, focusing on digital skills relevant, mostly in Re-skilling, Up-skilling so very relevant topic. from, from my side, I've spent over 12 years with the Adecco group, like, Daniel as well in various different roles. Last one, being a Global Industry Lead for Engineering and Technology. Delighted to be here and look forward to speaking to you all.

Daniel Masata: Thanks Charandeep. Adam dialing in from London.

Adam Hawkins: Yeah. Hence the the DMU guys, but yeah. Thank you, Daniel and good afternoon or good morning everyone. My name is Adam Hawkins. I work for LinkedIn and run our staffing business where we serve and support customers across the select staffing sector.

Daniel Masata: Great. Thanks Adam, to being part of this as well. The promise of short rounds round Roundup icebreakers. So here we go, Adam, you will have to respond first. the first question is a, would you rather question, okay. Well here it is. Would you rather never have another zoom call or never have another phone call?

You may answer now, Adam.

Adam Hawkins: Yeah. I'd rather never have a phone call. I do enjoy the human interaction, so happy to see people more than speak.

Daniel Masata: Nice. Okay, Charandeep, now you.

Charandeep Chhabra: likewise, Adam rather see people in the absence of not being able to meet everyone. So this is the closest fit.

Daniel Masata: Great. And Mary?

Mary Finley: I have to agree. I'll round it out. Would much prefer never to take a phone call again. I love seeing everybody on zoom and being able to connect on video.

Daniel Masata: That's pretty impressive. Yeah. Unanimous vote. so no opportunity here to short the zoom stock I guess we'll have to figure something else out. I have one additional quick question, you know, obviously 2020 was a crazy year in many ways. A year that drove a lot of change. And obviously this is partly what we're talking about here. So let's ask a short hypothetical question. So this one is a, what if question? Right. and the question is, what if you had not ended up in this line of work that you're all in now, what would you be doing now?

What would you be doing now? If you had not ended up in this line of work? Like where would you see it? Where would we see you. And this time, I think we will start with Charandeep . I think he has the easiest answer there. I might actually even know what it is. So Charandeep, how about you, where would we see you now, if you had not ended up, ended up in professional services and technology, and now with General Assembly?

Charandeep Chhabra: I'll be probably running and operating a hotel or a restaurant. That's where I would be.

Daniel Masata: Nice. Good. That's great. I can totally see that. So let me know once that happens, Mary, how about you?

Mary Finley: I have a great passion for public health and consider it at one point pivoting into the public health arena and going back for a master's degree. And I think this last year has been so challenging, but so interesting from a public health perspective and it definitely peaked that interest for me once again.

So I think, I think I would have pursued that.

Daniel Masata: Got it. That's interesting. Nice. Very good. Adam, how about you?

Adam Hawkins: Well, you know, me quite well. Roots one, either continuing a DJ in Korea, which I used to fund my university that could be one area, but I think the other area is I was very, very close before going to university, aside from studying business management to go into Criminology, I think I have a deep curiosity for people.

So, maybe I would have been a criminologist. I don't know. Maybe.

Daniel Masata: Well, you got the James Bond accent going. so I, if I was you, I would pick that over, over, over DJ Hawkins. all right. Very good. Thank you all. Appreciate the responses here.

Now let's really dive into our topic here for today. One more time, Upskilling & Reskilling for staffing companies. Is it just a fad? Or is it just essential? and I'll obviously, you know, we want to make this a very interactive session. between all of us here, right on the panel, but then hopefully also be getting some, some good questions here from the audience. well, I'll just tick it off with a few questions.

And, and in fact, my first one is for you, Mary. you mentioned it earlier, you have over a decade of experience in the learning and development and training space you work for, for an organization that I know, you know, wants to be a great place to work when it comes to helping their employees develop, you know, you are all over this topic.

But you know, with you having this deep experience and, and all this history in the space, what is really different about Upskilling and Reskilling this time? You know, or is it just another form of learning and development and training, and there's not really anything new behind it. So. It's almost like the core question, right?

Is it just a fad or is it something new that everybody should be really focused on and you know, understand how they can use it for their companies, for their individual careers and their organizations?

Mary Finley: Yeah, thank you, Daniel. And I do think it's an evolution. I think it still has its roots in traditional learning and development and training, but it has certainly evolved.

And I think Up-skilling and Re-skilling really are a response to the workplace change and how rapid changes it in our environment right now. really aimed at developing skills in a more agile and immediately relevant way. So whether you're preparing to take on a completely new job or learning skills for your current position. Over the last couple of decades, you know, the idea that a person will hold between 12 and 15 jobs in their lifetime is just really telling.

And how many times a person is going to have to pivot and evolve their skillset. We know that careers are no longer linear. We don't build career paths with 15 rungs on a ladder anymore. We build career paths that have zigzags where you're going up down sideways and times backwards even to, to learn and take on new initiatives.

So when I think about the traditional learning tracks, Corporate universities, certification programs, kind of where I started in the early two thousands. You know, those tended to align to a very defined career trajectory, whether it was building in seniority or moving into management they also tended to be pretty broad in scope tackle larger competencies that take time to develop and they might not have been immediately relevant to the person's job.

It was perhaps, you know, something that was going to build with them over the course of a linear career. So one, I don't think that always translates into the staffing environment where our consultants might be focused on project based work that's ever-changing. and when I think about upscaling and rescaling and what's different about about this versus traditional, is it really, is that in the moment need, how do I think differently?

What do I do differently? How can I be better in this activity right now? Whether it's technical leadership, interpersonal, social, whatever it is, it's topical and it matters to that person right then and there in their career, in their current job. So this underlying element that I think has been pervasive over the last decade of just continuous improvement, agile thinking the concept of growth mindset has really taken root, I think, across corporate America and really seeing the corporate global, excuse me the positive nature of change and specifically for our employees and our consultants. When I think about up-skilling and re-skilling, it's about them being able to proactively take control in an ever-changing environment and helping them guide a next step, whatever that next step might be.

Daniel Masata: Yeah. So, so it's more, it's more right here right now, more linked to you know, what's happening in their respective organizations or roads in, in this moment.

Right. So there's a more direct link basically between their current situation and really that the upscaling and rescaling content. Right. Yeah. Right. I think that, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. You know, speaking off trying to find the topics and the upscaling and rescaling programs that are the most relevant for talent out there currently.

Right? Maybe that's a good segue over to you, Charandeep. You know, you work for general assembly, you know, one of the hottest and biggest brands in the upskilling and reskilling space based out of New York here as well. Yeah. You know, what, what is, there's a lot of buzz, not just about upskilling reskilling in general, but about general assembly as well.

What, what is the magic recipe really for upskilling and reskilling? You know, how do you make it engaging and relevant to Mary's point? Right? How do you make it? How do you create up-skilling and re-skilling, that's really relevant for the individual, but then I guess a second part of my question, especially for you, Charandeep , given your role.

on the other hand, right? What is it that your enterprise customers are looking for as well? Right? How does up-skilling and re-skilling work for them?

Charandeep Chhabra: Yeah. Sure. great question. So let me, let me address your latter part of the question first. So from, from an enterprise perspective, reskilling existing employees is a more cost effective strategy for filling roles than hiring external candidates.

And it also helps make your organization more competitive in the long haul. the millennial workforce is known for its side job hopping, but studies show that the vast majority of them also value professional development and career growth opportunities. So by investing in your talents, growth and equipping them with the right skills, companies will be in better position to attract and retain top talent. Instead of having to seek it out each time they need to need a position to be filled. And Daniel, if you look at it from a consumer side it is no secret that certain skillsets are losing their value. Instead of waiting for your area of expertise to become obsolete or replaced by automation, reskilling presents the opportunity for workers to learn new skills and put their talents to use in new ways with long-term job potentials.

So by being transparent and employees about what skills are most needed within your organization and highlighting the ways these skills will be used going forward employers can create excitement about the future and empower their staff to participate in open dialogue, contribute to the training development process and ultimately transition into new roles.

So keeping that in mind. So if you look at what good, to your question, what good Upskilling & Reskilling ultimately comes down to is having clear goals and a pathway for achieving them. And in order for them to work the companies, that the staffing companies are just traditional enterprises you need to have a buy-in from all parties involved, especially including the person who's being Up-skilled or Re-skilled. and of course, your organizations, top executives who will be doing the investment. the content that is intentional and is learned in a service of a clear outcome. uh, and the outcome here is usually around a new position or a set of responsibilites.

And then finally a concrete rollout plan for getting started because you know, a lot of us know we need to do X, but we don't know where to start and how to actually go about completing it successfully. So at the end of the day I would say the companies are looking for flexibility in the L and D initiative.

and a clear ROI when it comes to upskilling reskilling costs in terms of flexibility uh, you know, you can approach Upskilling & Reskilling through courses and certificates or a hybrid learning or blended education as the buzz word these days where companies might combine coaching with online learning to achieve the optimum results.

and lastly, I would say that when it comes to making the financial investment. GA General Assembly recently commissioned a research by Josh Berson who a lot of you would know as a leading expert in the HR field that found it can cost as much as six times more to hire from the outside then to build from within.

Now from a staffing company perspective, you would say, well, that kind of diminishes my value proposition, which is all about, you know, finding people, getting them to work. I would, I would really point to a statistics some of the statistical standpoint of world economic forum that recently put out that that, that, that predicting the technological changes could displace as many as 85 million jobs in the next five years.

But at the same time, an estimate in 97 million new jobs stand to be created due to the rapid acceleration of automation. So, so you can see that what the importance of re-skilling up-skilling within the company, but it's almost a necessity now to find those net new roles that are more relevant for future in demand roles that will come to the market.

Daniel Masata: Really interesting. You're sharing the even. And you know, I think one topic that we also want to get to a still on this panel and maybe in a few minutes is, you know, how can staffing companies actually include this idea of Upskilling & Reskilling into their own service offerings, right? Because to your point, like an initial reaction could be that you think, well, if companies do more Upskilling & Reskilling, then they will hire less from the outside, right? Because it's, you know, six times cheaper or more cost-effective to up-skill and re-skill apparently than, than to hire from the outside. So, you know, if that's a you know, a winning proposition for client companies, then I guess you could say you better find a way as a staffing company to somehow be part of, of that development in a, in a proactive way. Right. So we'll, let's earmark that, that topic, that thought for a moment, this is really interesting, Charandeep . Thanks for sharing.

I want to pull Adam in here as well of course, you know. Adam, you work for the 400 pound gorilla in the professional networking space out there for LinkedIn, you know, a company that I would just assume you know, every single user maybe on this call here, not only obviously is present on with their own profile, but also leverages the platform as a a key tool for their, for their work, right? I mean, who, who would we all be in the recruiting space without LinkedIn licenses, but one of the aspects that I find fascinating about LinkedIn is also the fact that they, that you guys go deep when it comes to research and understanding the trends and developments in the world of work and the future of work. So I'd like to double click on, on this with you, Adam, for a moment, especially because of your role within LinkedIn and your background, which really combines the view of both the users and, and you know how LinkedIn can power businesses in the Staffing and Recruiting space. But at the same time, you also see the client perspective and just the general trends overall. So can we zoom into this a little, a little more? What are some of the trends and developments that LinkedIn sees in the space, maybe particularly linked to this Upskilling & Reskilling topic here?

Adam Hawkins: Yeah, so thanks for the intro Daniel, and I think you're right, you know, the it's great to see the real time interaction and data points on LinkedIn. And that goes beyond way beyond the connections. We're talking about a job job activity. We're talking about company activity, but I think areas such as content engagement and also, you know, our learning businesses is, is a very interesting one.

I think we could talk all day long around the data points, which doesn't going well for, panel discussion, but I just want to pull out maybe four key themes that, that I've been looking at and seeing across the industry. So, I think on the topic of, of Upscaling & Rescaling a fad absolutely not.

I think it's, it's an absolute business imperative as we see today and we we've conducted a number of, of reports through our learning business of late and one of the studies we did, we saw that 70% of a learning and development community say that their CEOs are now championing actively workforce professional development, which, which is a marked uptick and very interesting within that.

This is all about developing skills for the future. So we did another study of 70 so 700 CEOs that are managing businesses of 200, 250,000 plus to a million turn over and a thousand staff and, and all of that activities around prioritization of skill gaps, it's all to do with future skills. So that's really interesting.

I think the second area, which is really interesting to me is around learning is key for employee engagement. So yeah. We all work in a very challenging world and some people are coping reasonably well, but you know, we, we, we have to look at our businesses and we look at, I would say, early in career and the younger generations, and there's been a very disorientating and challenging experience through that.

And if we look at learning and development a lot of the early in career progression happens through osmosis. And I think what we're seeing on the platform, and when I say platform, I'm talking all the different elements we're seeing the leaders are having to really think about the types of experiences that they're offering to employees around learning and development.

So that goes beyond content. This is all to do with rigor around best practice sharing peer to peer learning. People are less interested in top-down content. They want to learn from each other. And I think that the companies that get this right around a continuous learning culture through the business and generating digital osmosis experiences, I think will prosper because that's being actively seeked in, in addition to career progression and redeemer.

the third area and none of these should surprise any of us, but our data's already doubled down on this is that the, the whole war for digital talent will intensify and that's not going to be a surprise to any of us. what we've seen. And this has been particularly relevant in the staffing industry down here as well, which is many businesses have been procrastinating for years around digital transformation, but, you know, The pandemic and all of the affiliated factors around the pandemic has catapulted us.

You know, we've seen two years with the transformations two months, we've seen the future of five years and we haven't been able to procrastinate. What what's been interesting is that we've accelerated digital transformation. And actually I'm seeing across the staffing industry the appetite to, to not just get us working from home, manage some productivity.

Good. Also now an accelerated interest around that topic. So that's increasing demand for digital talent. The other thing is that catapulting the world five years as meaning that some sectors and industries have, it's just really accelerated the inevitable. So I think about sort of, retail, you know, the writing was already on the wall, around, you know, high streets and, you know, offline retail.

We've seen a marked increase in, obviously e-commerce now and things like hyper local businesses, the digital talent will now compete with other sectors that will always play. And I think it's really interesting of how employees now rescale that talent. And we've been partnering with Microsoft. To, to help individuals rescale.

So you can go on opportunity@linkedin.com and there's around a thousand hours in those digital skill areas. And we've also been working with, with Charandeep in that business on how do we support the re-skilling area.

The last area, and I'll try and keep it short is which I think is really interesting, which is around internet internal mobility is on the rise.

and I think the recruitment industry will the staffing sector have a huge role to play in this. What that means Daniel is that it's never been more so that people are moving their talent within the business. And that's been stemmed from fundamentally what I what I term career confidence. there are many people in jobs that feel scared to move, even if they're not satisfied, satisfied, or engaged or empowered.

it's just not the right time to move. What that's meaning is. Firms cannot hire people from external so easily that will unlock. So people are looking to mobilize inward talent. I think also the hyper focus on diversity and inclusion is an important one. And actually that's making businesses have a strong focus on promotion of potential from diversity as well.

Some of our stats are really interesting is that The what we call the internal hiring of people in moving into dis into dissimilar roles. So that is marked different roles from April to August has gone up. So I'll give you some markets stats, it's gone up 20% in the UK. It's got like 23 or sorry, 25% in Germany, 21% in Singapore.

That is a marked uptake of people that are moving internally. And I think that's what that's going to mean from a recruiting point of view. we will be, we will be assessing talent as recruitment businesses, a lot more on potential ambition experiences, ability to work in a change environment and less so about functional roles and accreditation's and skills.

And I think that we'll see an evolution and I think that will be, and we see this finally on on the amount of learning content that is being sought on management. How do you manage potential motivation performance remotely? I think the whole theme of dynamic leadership will be one that will be a rich discussion because have all of these things around mobilization and really it's going to put a lot more stresses on upskilling all levels of management across the business.

Yeah. There are many more data points down here, but I will start there cause you may want to dig into some of those challenges.

Daniel Masata: Thanks, Adam, definitely, you know, clearly a lot of data points there that you can share. this, this is, this is fascinating. Obviously, you know, everyone listening to this here in the audience you know, feel free to reach out to the speakers on this professional networking platform called LinkedIn and ask for additional data and, and elements that you want to follow up on.

I have, uh, one additional question here and then I'll ask the, the, uh, WSS team here to, you know, surface any questions that might've come in from the audience, of course. but there was one thing in what you just said, Adam, that you know, I think is, is really a situation that especially Mary, you could speak to and you know Adam, you said that 2020 has accelerated digital transformation in a tremendous way. Right? And I think we can all feel this. I mean, just us being on the online power because we don't even have any other choice is one good example. But Mary, you know, you are your company advanced scope also very active, very involved in clinical research work, right? And clinical trials have become more and more digital and virtual clinical trials are obviously the, the hot, hot, hot topic currently. my question for you, there would be you know, as a change, like this happens in the marketplace. For a staffing company, staffing and professional services and outsourcing company like, like yours.

where do you start? Do you start with Up-skilling and Re-skilling for your internal talent first, or do you focus on the external market opportunity right away? And, you know, somehow create a revenue stream off of this. And at the same time help people up-skill and re-skill or, you know, upgrade their profiles.

Where do you start? You know, you're right at the source, like where it's happening. So where do you start?

Mary Finley: Yeah. Well, I can tell you where, where we started was, was the internal focus, because I think that is kind of the conundrum with staffing businesses. At least from the seat that I have being, you know, HR for staffing is you have your internal employee base, and then you have those consultants that are out working on your client and especially in our clinical division that there's a lot of overlap there because we have a variety of outsourcing types of work that we do within the clinical space.

So we did really focus first on the internal group who was responding and reacting to the need to, to run digital trials overnight and making sure that we were able to very quickly upscale those individuals on whether it was new technology that they needed to use new processes, they needed to follow new guidelines that were coming out from the, you know, federal requirements on how clinical trials needed to be run.

So that had to be cascaded and trained very quickly on an internal basis and then ultimately taking what we, what we could out into the consultant population. I don't think that's like the, the cracking of the code that I think is like, for me, the big underlying question of, of this panel, and especially from a practitioner's view.

When do you take it to your consultants and how do you make it most relevant to them and then make it that value add potential revenue stream but minimally a value add for what you're offering to your customers, because you're providing that Upscaling and Rescaling opportunity for the consultants that they're going to be bringing into their own environment.

and I think that's, I think that's the other side of this opportunity for staffing firms internally at advanced group. Admittedly, we've been very focused on our internal staff. We're going through internal digital transformation. We're looking to make sure that our teams are ready to support what we do out in the industry.

That then translates into how we work with our clients, how we work with our consultants, so it benefits all sides of the ecosystem, but actually providing these Up-skilling and Re-skilling opportunities to our consultants so that they can be a part of the digital transformation, or they can be a part of the change at the client's environment.

That to me is, you know, where we're staffing businesses really need to be thinking.

Daniel Masata: Great. Thanks Mary. Then just one quick follow on there. you know, at a real operational level, right? How do you. How do you make up-skilling, re-skilling happen currently for your external talent? Do you, do you have internal training resources that work with your external talent on up-skilling and re-skilling programs?

Or do you buy programs from outside vendors?

Mary Finley: It's been a combination. we have invested heavily at advanced group in our internal L and D capabilities. we've also partnered and curated content from other providers, such as LinkedIn learning, General Assembly, similar companies, such as those. and I think, again, especially with the remote workforce, the distributed workforce with our consultant base, it you know, it has to be a technology led solution.

It has to be short, it has to be concise. It has to be relevant. It has to, you know, not take a ton of time for those individuals because they're working on a critical client initiative. So we need to infuse value without diminishing their ability to perform, you know, the critical work for our customer.

So I think it ha you know, technology led relevant uh, you know, short, I think most people, you know, time is the most precious commodity, so, it needs to have one or two key takeaways. It has to be about a topic that matters. and so that's been our focus both internally and as we look out to the consultant base.

Daniel Masata: Great, Great .Thanks, Mary. I'll ask one more question. This one, probably mostly for Charandeep. but you know, we have two minutes left, so whoever wants to contribute, but Charandeep I saw in the chat here, one question from the audience that basically goes into the direction of saying, you know, okay. I mean, Generally Assembly and other bootcamp organizations.

Isn't it in the end still, you know, competitive with the staffing and recruiting business. And, and if not, you know, how can I make sure that it's not competitive, but really a complimentary or even a new opportunity. Right. And I know Charan, did you all represent the big guys out there with a General Assembly, but what's your advice to staffing company representatives here in terms of, you know, making it a good situation for them?

You know, can they partner with you, can they partner with others, are there white labeling solutions? Like what, how would you go about it?

Charandeep Chhabra: Sure, sure. Now it's such a great question. So for me as demand for tech and digital talent continues to grow, companies can't always expect to find ready-made talent. You know, I'm talking client companies, so instead they need to consider what training they can provide new and existing talent to close this widening skill gaps.

So when it comes to external talent staffing companies can play a huge role in, in identifying individuals who will succeed during the upskilling or reskilling process. By understanding a specific job requirements and business needs, you will be in a better position to look for people who have similar or adjacent skills that can be utilized in new capacity.

So in, in General Assembly, for example, we, we work significantly with the staffing companies, helping them match the, the, the client need with the alumni or the consultant, as Mary said, who fits the built. So having supported over 400 enterprice clients with their skills development sort of initiatives we can serve and when I say we, I'm not only specifically calling our General Assembly, but any organization that has a real boots on the ground, in-person learning or online learning. that can help you connect the dots between understanding the evolving work landscape and the individual specific needs and competency gap.

So they can be connected to the right role or right task to do the right role and fulfill the gap that our client has. So I think staffing companies play a significant role and hand in hand working with a re-skilling up-skilling company to identify specific competencies gap is the key to really accelerate your business proposition.

Mary Finley: And if maybe I could just add one comment to that Charandeep, which I think is really critical is it's sometimes it feels simple to make a course catalog or a library, of course, available to your employees, your consultants, and you think that that's going to be enough, but I think the critical piece is helping people to understand which courses, which training are going to up-skill or re-skill in a particular competency and how that ties to what their next project or their next role is going to be within the organization.

I think that has to be, it has to be there and staffing companies don't necessarily have that competency internally to figure that out. And so partnering with the, with the provider would help.

Charandeep Chhabra: You spot on Mary and that's, that's, that's exactly what this is about. This is not about, hey, I'm moving from a business analyst or a system analyst, and it's a role.

This is actually about what competency you are missing to be relevant for that title of system analyst and helping them achieve that plugs that gap. And, and that's how you sort of start widening your skill sets.

Daniel Masata: Right. Well, I know we could all continue to talk about this for a lot longer. For some reason we just lost Adam I think.

I don't see him any more here, but you know, he was a great part of this as well. thank you so much, Mary Charandeep and Adam for, for this conversation. you clearly know what you're talking about and, you know, it was, uh, an honor and a privilege to be on this panel together with you to the audience here of course, if you, if you have other questions, comments for the participants, there's Adam again feel free to share those in, in the messaging, the chat function here, or of course, reach out to, to the participants individually. I'm looking at the participant count here. The audience count.

We picked up another 150 participants during our online panel. So all of you did a great job, Mary, Adam and Charandeep yeah. The fact that there are even more people on here now has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Doug Leeby is one of the speakers on the upcoming panel. Of course, I think, you know, the credit here goes to the three of you instead.

and, uh, you know, you know, everybody of course stay tuned here for the following panels. It's great conversations on there. Again, Doug Leeby, Jason Ezratty, Marcus Sawyer, a bunch of others throughout the day here. And hopefully, you know, as insightful and valuable of a conversation as this. So again, thank you very much to the three of you and I'll hand it back over to the WSS team to take the audience to the next session.

Charandeep Chhabra: Thank you for having us. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.